UI/UX for Product Led Growth

Yash From Momentum (00:03)
Seems like we are live. We should be live. Fingers crossed we are live. Let's see. But I'll still start with the introduction, and then we'll see where we go from there. Hello, and welcome to Momentum Office Hours. My name is Yash, and I'm joined by my co -founders, Harsh, Jay, Kaushik, to discuss the topic of the week, which is UX for product -led growth.

Koushik From Momentum (00:10)
Yeah.

Jay From Momentum (00:10)
Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (00:19)
Yes.

Jay From Momentum (00:20)
Sure.

Yash From Momentum (00:33)
Our goal is to provide you with actionable insights and practical strategies that you can apply to your own products. Throughout the session, we encourage you to engage with us by asking questions and sharing your thoughts. This is fantastic opportunity to learn from each other and gain new insights. These insights, they can help you drive your SaaS initiatives forward as well. So let's get started. Jay, Harsh, Kaushik, how are we doing today?

Harsh From Momentum (00:33)
Thank you.

Koushik From Momentum (01:00)
Great, good, lots of work but like always.

Harsh From Momentum (01:04)
Yeah, yeah, doing great. Have a good meeting and now let me fold the office hours.

Yash From Momentum (01:10)
We are doing this office hours, we're doing this live. So let's see what happens. So we're here to talk about UX for product -led growth. So firstly, what, according to you, is product -led?

Koushik From Momentum (01:11)
Okay.

Jay From Momentum (01:13)
Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (01:32)
So I'll go first. product -led growth, so you have sales -led growth, product -led growth. You have two types in which you can categorize them. In product -led growth, the product experience, or how the product, how the user experiences the product, besides the intense selling of the product for the future state. You can take it like that. So.

Previously in Sales and Growth, have to sign up with a sales person who's talking, giving you the demo and making you understand about the product. In Product and Growth, there is no sales person. The product itself is doing the selling part and making you understand about the product. And the user goes through the entire experience and then understands about the product and then tries to upgrade. If he finds it useful, he upgrades and then goes forward.

Yash From Momentum (02:21)
Jai, Harsh, what do think? Because I disagree but I will come to my opinion in a bit.

Jay From Momentum (02:22)
Yeah, yeah I mean, Cauchy. Okay.

Okay, I believe, yeah, fairly similar thought process I also have with respect to that. So earlier marketing team used to bring salespeople, we used to bring salespeople, salespeople used to bring it to product and

You know the journey was linear, now it's more about product in itself has to sell on its own. so having those features incorporated inside the product where it itself gets more and more users and eventually customers is what product growth is all about.

Yash From Momentum (03:02)
Interesting.

Harsh From Momentum (03:02)
Yeah, so we can say product in product network the product itself is the salesperson of our own product. our product is the one when anyone can come to our product then after we can make our journey of the sign up, onboarding and then after some features explaining and then after when they will do each one by one every stage the product itself giving the

Yash From Momentum (03:11)
Okay.

Harsh From Momentum (03:32)
best user experience to our users. In this way, we will the best experience to our users.

Yash From Momentum (03:43)
Correct. So here's, so great points. And so then I have a disagreement here and I hope I'm wrong because here's what I understand with product -led growth. So I think what the three of you have described is self -serve or self -onboarding or you

essentially marketing led growth, which is not sales led growth. So a person is not onboarding your website and your blogs and then your sign up journey and then your drip campaigns and then tours and then checklists and self upgrade. All of those things are happening. And that I would define as self -serve. However, would define product led growth is where the product is not necessarily

salesperson, a product is also a marketing person. So it is making, it is not just in process of converting people, but it is in process of bringing new people in as well. So bringing more, making more people aware. So an example of that, an example of a great PLG strategy, like the OG, like the first PLG strategy that the world ever saw was

was the one that Hotmail had. So we don't use Hotmail. mean, most people don't use Hotmail anymore. But Hotmail was like my white beard will showcase that Hotmail, I've used it. And Hotmail was the world's first free email. And so which implies that there was a time when people used to pay for email.

for personal emails also. So Hotmail was the world's first free email. And so every email that Hotmail, that people used to send using Hotmail, it would have one small line at the end, which just said, you know, send via Hotmail, get your free email now. And so, all the, and this is something that everyone has then adopted. So if you're on a free plan of MailChimp or MailerLite or any of the email marketing systems.

You'll see you'll make sure that if you're on the free plan, you are essentially marketing their product to whatever subscribers, contacts, friends, whoever it is that you are emailing this out to. So I'd say that PLG is not necessarily restricted or only in conversion of people who have signed up or people are coming in, but it is also in like bringing new people. I have a couple more examples also, but

Koushik From Momentum (06:24)
bringing you people.

Yash From Momentum (06:27)
What are your thoughts on that?

Koushik From Momentum (06:29)
I mean, so it's similar to this example, right? For example,

When you were talking about Hotmail, the product led experience leading to not just conversions, also leading to the sort of referral about the product itself to other people. I think PayPal also tried to do that at one point where they introduced this entire referral system itself where someone who is an active user who has already converted can refer PayPal to another person that they

Yash From Momentum (06:46)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (07:04)
because there's nothing like word of mouth or what a product because if you have all the great products that we know of it's most of the time you heard about it from your peer or from some friend or someone they told you about that product right yeah they're mostly bragging about it yeah

Yash From Momentum (07:07)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were mostly bragging about it. Like, I know about this product that you don't know about this product.

Koushik From Momentum (07:24)
Yeah, exactly. And you are like, there's a sudden form where you're like, no, have to check it out. I have to see what it is. So that that entire factor happens in PLG. So that's where the product experience becomes a significant factor. Yeah. Yeah.

Yash From Momentum (07:29)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Also plays a big role. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (07:44)
So we can say, you know, when we were in college, right, at that time, we have some nearby app to free each other. So they will give very good offers. It's like you will refer someone else, then you will get this amount, you can get this coupon code. So we can say this is one of the examples of product retro. The product itself is one type of sales. They also do the marketing. We are the marketing people for them.

Jay From Momentum (07:46)
Thank

Yash From Momentum (07:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so is basically like building referral systems within a product is one of the key PLG motion thing that most companies do. But coming to, and so there are a lot of examples in B2C. So as an example, like WhatsApp had PLG and almost like most B2C companies have had PLG in some way, shape or form.

Because a lot of social networks, right? So they would build a network that will bring in more people. And the more people who come in, they'll bring in more people. But in context of SaaS, have you come across any other, apart from referral is given, but apart from that, any other journeys that you've seen where the product is also acting not just as a salesperson, but also as a marketing person?

Koushik From Momentum (09:09)
So we have multiple. So in SAS, we have seen HubSpot doing that. And we have seen. So one is at what stage are they trying to do it. That's also very important. Some try to do it in acquisition state itself, in the first onboarding set itself. And once the onboarding is done, then there is this other stage where at the time of the free trial period time.

or there is a actually as this brings up we should we have to talk about the two models that exist within that right for example there is the free trial period type there's also the freemium know aspect

Yash From Momentum (09:46)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (09:52)
In premium aspect, we have seen products like, for example, Figma, let's take as a tool. In Figma, there are certain aspects of Figma which are free to use for as long as you can to its fullest potential. But then after a particular point of time when you want it to use it, you have to upgrade to premium because you absolutely have the necessity of Figma as a designer to do it.

Yash From Momentum (10:05)
Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (10:16)
And at that point of time, the value of the product has hit me so much that I do talk about the product as a person itself to every possible designer. I still remember when I started there was XD and people were slowly transitioning towards Figma. And there was Sketch also, the OG Sketch. So there was that also. Yeah, I don't know who was the Sketch, but yeah.

Yash From Momentum (10:37)
Yeah. Yeah. I was scared.

Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (10:44)
But the thing is, one thing that Figma cracked very well is about there were a lot of aspects of XD that was only available in premium version, but Figma tried to keep it in free version. And only when you excessively use it, you need the premium version. So that is a good way. Now, the fact that I was able to experience very important aspects in free version, I did talk about it to others saying that, you know what?

you won't get that in XD or in InVision, you can do it in Twinsign. So it's also about how the value of the product is positioned at what stage of the product. And then how you use that value itself to, when user understands the value, they will talk about

Yash From Momentum (11:19)
And

Koushik From Momentum (11:40)
Or you yourself can figure out a way to promote it within the product also. So, Vigma is one good example of how someone did it.

Harsh From Momentum (11:48)
Yeah, I also, we also implement the example in clientjoin. So in clientjoin, we have proposals and if we send a proposal to our client, right, or other if we send our invoice to our clients, right, once they accept a proposal or once they pay the invoice, right. So after the paying, the customer does not know what is the clientjoin, right. But once they accept, will show how was our experience with

So this is one way when we share our experience with clients to our customers. If they like our user experience of accepting the invoice or proposal, so they will also check the client. So these are the same things which we have implemented

Yash From Momentum (12:24)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I'll tell you what, right? So with that implementation, we were actually double dipping, right? So I'll tell you what we were doing. So within the product, so let's say I'm the premium customer of ClientJoy, and Hershey is my client, and I'm using ClientJoy to send out an invoice. As soon as he pays the invoice, the screen that he lands onto says, you know,

Harsh From Momentum (12:42)
Hahaha

Yash From Momentum (13:01)
I hope you had a great time, you how smooth it was paying this invoice. If you also want to send invoices that are this smooth and this beautiful, consider signing up to ClientJoy. So one, that is something that we did. But the double dipping piece is that if I as an agency did not want my customers to find out that I was using ClientJoy to send out the invoice, I had to buy an add -on, which was a custom branding add -on.

Jay From Momentum (13:13)
Yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (13:25)
Hahaha

Jay From Momentum (13:26)
Yeah, brand new place, yeah.

Yash From Momentum (13:29)
So the custom branding add -on, so it's basically the right to remove client choice branding from anywhere. And so you're like, hey, if you're buying the add -on, it's OK if you don't bring us new customers. That's fine. So there's sort of double -dipping at that time. But think, Jay, you were also saying something.

Harsh From Momentum (13:45)
See you next time.

Jay From Momentum (13:49)
Yeah, yeah, just adding to that branding, was just mentioning the name that yeah, in branding, we did the same thing. I mean, there are lot of examples which other SaaS companies are also doing the same way. They basically have second or third tier where you don't have the similar model of removing powered by.

the name so that they can upscale on the same. In fact, talking about product -led growth, there is one more great example that OpenAI has also implemented recently where if you're using GPD free version, that is 3 .5 and it initially gives you fourth version for limited number of prompts and then it stops it and says that your GPD 4 access is limited right now for you will be able to use it in the next 30 minutes. But if you want to use it now, upgrade to plan. So in itself,

Yash From Momentum (14:05)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jay From Momentum (14:35)
it's selling and know talking about the same. Yeah so this was just bringing to one question for Kaushik that what UX metrics do we prioritize you know while measuring the success of PLG strategy.

Yash From Momentum (14:38)
So I'll, I'll, ha, sorry no go.

Koushik From Momentum (14:52)
So with respect to PLG strategy, one thing that as a metric as well as with respect to the overall thought process one needs to keep in mind from UX perspective is that you need to give the value of your product to a user as quickly as possible. so and because there's always another option in their mind and so you are here to convince them as quick as possible. things like

reducing the friction at acquisition stage itself, that's very important. So that's where how quickly you onboard your client into the product and how less of an onboarding tutorial or onboarding or a learning curve they need to understand the product that needs to be minimized. So that is an important thing. Then there is a time to value.

Yash From Momentum (15:24)
All right.

Koushik From Momentum (15:39)
rate. So for example, time to value rate to define it basically is that every product has a every product is a tool and for them to understand the value of using that tool, how quickly are you able to make them understand that. Now that time to value decides your product experience with respect to are you going to decide over having a freemium model or are you going to give them a 14 day trial period or a 30 day particular trial period for them to understand the value of

Yash From Momentum (15:40)
Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (16:09)
and then comes with respect to the acquisition rate, the conversion rates and as well as the churn rate. Understanding both of them are also important, right? So conversion rate, because one thing that we have to understand here is that the time a user is using your tool or your product without paying for it is a, from business perspective, you're spending money to still make them use it. Yeah.

Jay From Momentum (16:18)
Yeah.

Yash From Momentum (16:35)
Yeah, yeah, it costs like there are server costs, salary costs, all of it, costs, yeah.

Jay From Momentum (16:35)
Yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (16:36)
Thank you.

Koushik From Momentum (16:40)
Yeah, so for you, you have to make the experience in such a way that this conversion happens quicker and faster. So that's why when I was talking the first time, was saying that product experience in product -led growth, product experience dictates the business in a way. So conversion rates and also churn rate also. So minimizing the churn rate and then one aspect that many

Jay From Momentum (16:58)
Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (17:07)
people that I've seen not giving so much attention to is looking at converted set of users, how they are using the application. Because I think in most of the cases, 80 % of your revenue is going to come from 20 % of the users who got cut.

Yash From Momentum (17:24)
Yeah, 20 % of the customers, yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (17:28)
This is tight.

Koushik From Momentum (17:28)
who got converted. So it's very important to understand what made them convert and also to make sure that they don't leave also. So both of these aspects. keep these...

Jay From Momentum (17:28)
to that.

Yash From Momentum (17:35)
Yeah

Jay From Momentum (17:35)
Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (17:40)
reducing the churn rate, increasing the conversion rate and reducing the friction at the acquisition stage itself. These three are very, very, very important. And these three are the stages where you will find most of them get it wrong. So, and where you have to do most of the experiments happening. yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (17:59)
Yeah so yeah Kausi so if we want to increase retention of user right so what are the strategies that we can follow in UX

Koushik From Momentum (18:11)
So there are two kinds of users with respect to this. You should always start from the user's perspective.

Your aim is to make them understand, to convert them into an active user. it is about, you will see a lot of SaaS products as well as do this very common thing is that there will be basic set of controls and basic set of usages that would be wrong. For example, let's say while you are building the product, you would have had a certain way you would have built it. But most of the times you would forget how it is for the first time user to use it.

Harsh From Momentum (18:25)
Okay.

Koushik From Momentum (18:51)
So you had 10 options, so you would have given it in a dropdown. And probably the eighth option is what the user wants, but that is inside a dropdown hidden. How would he go there? So the UX alternative would be, can I replace the dropdown with a tag, where it's obviously visible for me, and such that I can quickly reach out to it.

Yash From Momentum (19:02)
Get in.

Harsh From Momentum (19:03)
Thank you.

Koushik From Momentum (19:18)
One interesting measure from UX perspective that you could take for converting a normal user into an active user is giving them what they need as soon as possible. And to give them what they need as soon as possible, you need to make sure that most of the options are more accessible and more easily reachable.

There is laws of locality in UX that we talk about, where when a user is looking out for something, it should be there at that particular place. And when a user is looking out for a particular action, and what is the user trying to do with your platform, and what information does he need to do that particular task, and what all actions does he need to do with respect to that particular task. All these things should be together.

Harsh From Momentum (19:47)
Yeah.

Thank

Koushik From Momentum (20:04)
And if they are at different, different places, then obviously the activation rate will get affected because at the end of the day, it's a tool. And if I'm not able to achieve my task with that particular tool, then obviously it will affect the user.

Yash From Momentum (20:17)
And I have an interesting thing to share. I tweeted about this yesterday. I was making, so we use Google Workspace at Momentum Ventures. And I was making a payment of like, I think it was what, $50, $60 or something like that to Google. And I was like connected the bank and everything. And so then when I go to connecting, like choosing the bank page, the drop down of all the banks,

was, so that was not sorted. So one, I could not type on my keyboard and find the bank, so that option was disabled. So I had to manually scroll and that is not even alphabetically sorted. So there is this, my bank could be anywhere and there are more than 200 banks that they are integrated in.

Koushik From Momentum (20:50)
Yeah

Harsh From Momentum (21:01)
energetic.

Koushik From Momentum (21:03)
Yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (21:04)
Thank you.

Jay From Momentum (21:04)
Okay.

Koushik From Momentum (21:10)
Good luck.

Yash From Momentum (21:12)
So I'd say this is extremely important. I I know that this is not what you meant, but it just, yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (21:19)
No, it is. that's exactly what I was trying to make a point. If the user is frustrated about a tiny task that he is doing, that will definitely affect the retention rate. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Harsh From Momentum (21:28)
the right.

Yash From Momentum (21:29)
Yeah. Yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (21:33)
Intensifier, yes, right.

Yash From Momentum (21:33)
Absolutely. Everyone frustrated me enough to tweet about it to all of my 54 followers. But it frustrated me. So it is just so painful that I locate my bank by scrolling and stuff like that. And so the other pieces, like another example of a great UX for PLG. And if you look at it from the SaaS context a little bit, which is where the user might not necessarily be the customer.

Harsh From Momentum (21:36)
Hahaha

Koushik From Momentum (21:40)
Yeah

Jay From Momentum (21:41)
Okay.

Yash From Momentum (22:03)
the person like the entity that is paying is different from the person was using.

And there could be different types of users at different hierarchies who need different amounts of access. And in most cases, also get different unit of value from the product. So as an example, think of a sales CRM where the sales head gets value from analytics, while the salesperson gets value from reminders or something like that, or sequences or whatever. it's like different parts of your product are appealing

to different position or different designation in an organization. And the people who are paying for it is like the procurement team or something like that, who have absolutely nothing to do with sales. And so in those cases, one of the PLG motions that I've seen really well implemented was the bottom -up approach that Airtable implemented, which is essentially where if you signed up to Airtable,

You can use Airtable for free forever. It will come with its own custom brand, like, sorry, it will come with its Airtable branding and stuff like that. Certain features are available, certain features are not, and all of those things, right? With some restrictions, you're still able to experience the product fully. However, you know, typically, Airtable's value comes from other people who are also able to see the same data that you are seeing, right? And they are also able to play around with the tables and

So one of the really cool things that they did was that if I signed up to Airtable and if I invite Harsh, I get $10 in my Airtable wallet. so now Harsh is also on Airtable. And then if he invites you, he gets $10 in his wallet and so on and so forth. Ultimately, all of that money is pooled and becomes part of the workspace wallet. But what that does is that now if

So let's say I am the person who has to make the payment for Airtable. But if someone from our team, like an intern from our team, found a great use case for Airtable, invited like 15 people from the office over the next like 10 weeks or whatever, and then all of them started using Airtable, and then when it comes to my desk for approval, what I'm seeing is that, okay, 15 people are using this software. There's, let's say, whatever, $200 in the workspace account.

And this is the value that people at different hierarchies are already getting from the software. And so all of my objections internally, while making a purchase decision of a software, are fairly like, because I'm thinking I'm still going to get like a two month trial of premium air -debate trial. And the buy -in of the company is already there, because 15 of them are already using it. And so that, think, was a great implementation where like one

Jay From Momentum (24:42)
Yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (24:46)
using that.

Jay From Momentum (24:47)
Yeah.

Yash From Momentum (24:54)
Like I'm saying small feature, must have been complicated implementation because you have to also integrate your payment gateways and building a wallet system and all of that. But compared to the software in general, the size of the air table in general, very small implementation in that context. But the purchase journey that they've been able to sort of culminate into one place is really, really cool there. So just wanted

sort of share that as an example also. That is interesting. So,

Jay From Momentum (25:27)
Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, just saying that that that's really interesting. mean For sure, but this also brings me to the next question like since there's a big trend With respect to you know, SAS companies switching to product land growth at this point of time And there's a lot of talk while we see in the communities, right? If anyone could share what would be you know most challenges and if you would like to jump in and say about what are the main UX challenges that these companies face while transitioning to a product land group

Koushik From Momentum (26:00)
Well, first is understanding about what model to get into because that also influences the UX. Like I said, like, so they

choosing are you going to have freemium model or the 14 -in -a trial model or are you going to have a combination of both the hybrid version of both so those things and that decides the how much value are you going to provide is there time bound for it are you going to give all the features within that particular time and then you know ask them

you'll see in majority of the SaaS products which have AI as its aspect, you'll see a lot of credit based system happening within that. So when you have this much amount of credits to experience the value of what the product can offer you. And then once the credit is done, you are obviously so used to using the product that you have to update. there are a lot of aspects, but one important thing that two important aspects is that one is

Harsh From Momentum (26:57)
Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (27:03)
onboarding aspect is very, very important as well as trying to make sure, even personalizing the product is also very, important. Just like how Ash pointed out, there's always a cohort of people who are using your product and they all fall under one single cohort, but their usage is different within the product. So now...

When you do not personalize a product, what happens is that one has to search for what they want within the product. even after they're finding that particular aspect, something that what someone else uses will be still there on the business side or in some other way.

So personalization in UX is also very important and integrating personalization within the onboarding is a great strategy. So you choose what is your use case or why you are here to use a particular product and then the entire application, you know, adapting to that and giving you just the set of tools and services which are there within that. using that helps to... So here two things are happening, right? One is the person is able to enter the product with ZD.

Second is the person is able to use the product in exactly the way he wanted that helps in activation. So you're trying to achieve both at the same time. So that is a very good initial strategy to go for you whoever is trying to move from one motion to another motion.

Harsh From Momentum (28:32)
Yeah, so Causing in onboarding, So there are many ways to onboard our users such like we have one list of checklists, right? Where they will complete the checklist so that they will know what are the features that are available in the product. So in other way, we can say there is one type of walkthrough. When you click on each button or each settings, they will see what are the things that are available.

or in somehow we can say we are displaying some case studies or we can say the onboarding videos where the other person can explain what are the features available. So what do you think? What is the best way or what are the responsible strategy of onboarding?

Koushik From Momentum (29:15)
So I have a very, I mean, unpopular opinion with this. I'll tell you. So the thing is that at least the basic usage of the product, the user shouldn't go through a learning curve. I mean, then it means that there is something wrong with the UX there. So the main, if you need a guiding tutorial within the product to teach them about how to use it.

Harsh From Momentum (29:19)
I'm

Koushik From Momentum (29:41)
You don't see a guiding tutorial of how to use ChatGPT. There is a chat box. You type it, it comes up. So good UX should be like, there's a really good book on UX design called as Don't Make Me Think, which is amazing. think it's something if anyone is watching this, they have to check that book. So one of the major factors that that book talks about is that it's very, you know,

Yash From Momentum (29:54)
Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (30:09)
is that good interaction is no interaction. yeah, good interaction is no interaction. That means from UX, from the user perspective, he doesn't have to think much about how to use that particular

Yash From Momentum (30:12)
Yeah, 0 UX products.

Harsh From Momentum (30:15)
Hahaha

Koushik From Momentum (30:27)
But there are later aspects of the product which could need that guiding tutorial. Let's say your application is about mind mapping and the user shouldn't need a guide about how to mind map.

The user might need a guide about how to, probably there are other aspects to the mind map. Like for example, how to change the color of the mind map or how to change the, how to edit the mind map, how to nest one mind map inside. These aspects could be there, but how to connect one mind map to another mind map if you need a user, know? Yeah, it should be intuitive, exactly. That's the right word. So there's a very good example of this. You know, when Google Maps,

Yash From Momentum (31:00)
to just be intuitive.

Koushik From Momentum (31:11)
came in for the first time. don't know how many of you remember this. Maps, first Google Maps used to showcase the whole globe. Yeah, like it used to showcase the whole earth basically in the starting. Then slowly, if you see the current Google Maps, it shows your location. It shows what all, you know, on the side, all places around you, nearby restaurants, nearby this thing. What do you think this is? So this is basically they,

Jay From Momentum (31:17)
Yeah, I do remember.

Harsh From Momentum (31:18)
Okay.

Yash From Momentum (31:31)
what places.

Harsh From Momentum (31:32)
near by the business.

Koushik From Momentum (31:39)
they are thinking from the user perspective and saying that these could be the options that user might click on. And I don't want them to click on. I don't want him to go and search nearby, restaurant near me. Instead, can I nudge him a little bit about what Google Maps can do? So that's why you have that entire left panel giving you all those options. So similarly, you nudge the user.

enough just enough to know about what basically this product does then all the extra elements for example if I have to attach a node to a know going back to that mind map example attach a node to a mind map or anything that's little more than what the basic usage is that needs that could have the you know tutorial and the better what is a better version within that that is always depending on the product there's no one common

rule book or playbook for this.

Harsh From Momentum (32:31)
Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (32:33)
I think, for example, certain products that have a much more larger usage and larger learning curve definitely need an entire documentation set where there is much more detailed videos of how you could use it. But if your product is about something, you come here, you create something, then you publish it. If it's finishing within a certain step, a simple, the first step, second step, third step process

would work but that is something that you would obviously be experimenting upon multiple times to arrive at the right thing. There's no one playbook here but the first part is sure what I just said like you it should be in your terror book.

Harsh From Momentum (33:16)
So, we can say some out if any product if there are two or three main features then it will be product in such a way that the product itself is serving right but if in any product we there are such like the 10, 12 features there are main features of product right and it's not feasible it's not possible

users can understand the features automatically. So at that time it will be good if we have some checklists or some tutorial videos.

Koushik From Momentum (33:48)
Yeah, and also like it's also about priorities. So which features or which? aspects of the product you prioritize first and then comes the data set of prioritization, so There's only so much room in the screen. You can't show everything at the same time. So So you can't and also there is this I always say this thing about You know even in web design for that aspect and also in inside a product also is that

Yash From Momentum (33:57)
Yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (34:04)
Bye bye.

Yash From Momentum (34:04)
Yeah, yeah.

Jay From Momentum (34:04)
Yeah.

Koushik From Momentum (34:14)
Think of your product as a bunch, you know, it's a whole bunch of information and amongst information, certain information is actionable information that you can take some action upon.

Now, I can't just put everything inside one screen. So you have to give it in a very digestible way. So you give one after the other. that's much more easier for... That's why I use the word digestible way. So it's like the user, it's intuitive, he's slowly going through. Yeah, he's able to consume it one after the other and use it one after the other and figure out things one after the other.

Harsh From Momentum (34:33)
Yeah.

Yash From Momentum (34:44)
is able to consume.

And I'll tell you, this sort of brings me back to Jay's question also. So I think the best example of a zero experience product that exists out there was the glove that Thanos had.

Koushik From Momentum (35:09)
Yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (35:09)
Hahaha!

Jay From Momentum (35:10)
Thank you.

Yash From Momentum (35:12)
do this and look at the amount of interaction that Thanos had to do and look at the impact that he able to create, like the disproportionality of that, right? But just coming back to Jay's question a little bit, right? Which is primarily, I agree with what Kaushik was saying in terms of thinking about it from the user standpoint and giving them checklists and information in a digestible way.

Koushik From Momentum (35:19)
Yeah.

Harsh From Momentum (35:20)
Thank

Yash From Momentum (35:41)
However, I think that if a company is moving from a sales led approach to a product led approach or a product led growth strategy, all of UX has to be done from scratch. Because if it's a sales led approach, then information is not given in a digestible way. Because there's a person who's there who's going to onboard and explain. And actually, this is a dark part

Koushik From Momentum (36:01)
Yeah.

Yash From Momentum (36:11)
a SaaS company also, which is where a SaaS company also makes money teaching how to use their own product. So there's some small incentive in making it a little more complicated than it needs to be if it's a sales led approach already. And so if you directly move from a sales led approach to product led growth, just the onboarding is not going to fix it because all the other journeys

are done as if there is a person who has explained it and it is just not possible. This, by the way, brings us to the last part of the conversation. Is there anything that anyone wants to share?

Jay From Momentum (36:55)
You know, I was just going to add to this that I was just this actually I can correlate very well because I was just finishing up one of the courses that I was learning for one of the news as well as which is trending for the enrichment for these. So I can understand that. it's just the learning curve in itself. There's a whole course behind it and a whole community.

Yash From Momentum (37:08)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Correct. And so they'll make some sort of something from out of that. So and if not, even if they don't make it, it's still a loss to you because you have to invest so much amount of time in learning a piece of software. But thank you, everyone, for joining in. People who are watching us on YouTube, LinkedIn, Twitter, wherever you are, thank you for joining in. We have our lives of going back on calls.

Jay From Momentum (37:19)
Yeah.

Yash From Momentum (37:43)
and designing interfaces on Figma and reaching out to prospects and building great engineering solutions and deploying that on servers in a scalable fashion and all of those things to get back to. So we'll have to take your leave. But thank you, everyone, for joining in. And we will see you again next week. Yeah, bye.

Koushik From Momentum (38:09)
Great. See you. Bye.

Harsh From Momentum (38:10)
Yeah.

Jay From Momentum (38:11)
Thank you everyone. Bye.